442ndRCT Soldier's Forum

With all the Jeeps coming our way and restorations made. Here is a thread to help all us novice helps spot the differences betweeb real WW2 jeeps from the non WW2 jeeps.

Here is a look at grills

Notice the two different grills, and then compare them to the top "grill vs. model history"

San Clemente Jeep


Tim's Jeep


Caffrey's Jeep
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2086/241 ... 18de6b.jpg

Nice job Dave, this will help us in our quest for having an authentic attitude towards our impression.

The CJ-2A was a civilian version with "clear" modification, one is the exterior fuel cap.

You can notice the difference in the San Clemente Jeep



San Clemente Jeep


Tim's Jeep


Caffrey's Jeep
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2158/241 ... d2b12e.jpg

Shown here with shovel and axe attachments

The rear view, post war version had a "tail gate", notice this in the Sam Clemente Jeep

San Clemente Jeep


Tim's Jeep


Caffrey's Jeep
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2378/241 ... ccf8c2.jpg

On the CJ jeeps, the gas cap is the most obvious but other clues that will have a vehicle collector foaming at the mouth and they will spot right off is the lack of tool indents on the drivers side of the body and an oval shaped drain hole on the body around where the drivers feet rest on both the driver and passengers sides.

If there was no conversion done, then on the windshield and the hood will be a logo, "WILLY'S" stamped in the center of the windshield frame and on either side of the hood.

The T90 transmission and engine description are also dead giveaways. I have seen a post war CJ with Navy plates on it so some were drafted into service, but not with the Army as far as I know.

Of the three jeeps shown, the San Clemente jeep is a post war CJ as you know. My jeep is a 1945 Willy's jeep and Caffery's as I have been told is a 70/80's US Postal jeep with a military body on it. Things that stand out on Caffery's jeep in these photos is the lack of blackout lights on front and rear. It appears turn signals have been added to the front fenders. Under the drivers seat is the muffler, it should be mounted on the passenger side. On the rear bumper, well... that shouldn't be there at all and was intended to be a step for mailmen to get access to the inside of the rear cab of a Postal jeep body. Also notice the wheel base on the Postal jeep looks to be quite a bit smaller than a wartime jeep. Lastly you can't see it in these photos but you can in the ones Caffery had posted, it's an automatic verses manual transmission. You can see things missing or moved on the dash such as the hand brake.

May not seem like a big deal to know all these things, but I used to belong to the military vehicle collectors club back in the day and one reason I don't anymore is many of the vehicle collectors are very picky about vehicles and they tear apart a vehicle that isn't 'off the factory floor' restored. Something like a CJ or Caffery's jeep would set them frothing at the mouth. To me I prefer a 'combat' jeep. When jeeps got in the theatre and had any mileage on them GI's would 'customize' and upgrade them as need be just like today with the Hummer in Iraq.

Many jeeps were wrecked, most in road accidents and not that often in combat. These wrecked jeeps were typically towed or dumped into wrecking yards and left across Europe. These jeeps were a vital source of spare parts when supply was difficult which was most of the time. So a 'factory' jeep would quickly become a mix of various war years parts. Often both Willy's and Ford parts would be interchanged on one jeep. Ford parts were often stamped or molded with a Ford Logo "F" on them including many of the bolt heads.

I like it with lots of mud and gear hanging on them like you see in real front line combat photos.

Very interesting information.

What are "blackout Lights" were would I look in the pictures?

cool, I'm actually learning something here

davep wrote:Very interesting information.

What are "blackout Lights" were would I look in the pictures?

Depends on what country you are because they all kinda used different methods to blackout lights.

Most of the countries would put a cover over the light that would cover the outer portions and leave either a small circle or a slit, *just* enough so the crew could see, but it would take out all that extra light being thrown out in a large cone, which would be VERY visible to say... an enemy night fighter looking for ground targets (the intended purpose), or artillery spotters, or just bad guys in general (probably the more common one).



Its that covered light that has a small horizontal slit sitting on the driver's side fender.

The Germans used the same idea and put blackout lights on EVERYTHING... even panzers.

Very interesting Rich, that was helpful. You see stuff, and don't know why it looks the way it does, until someone points it out, but only after you ask a question.

Also here is a very nice site, it's a bunch of guys/club who have restored jeeps. Tons of "before-n-after" pictures, how do, where to get parts, example etc. They're all in the Southern California
http://www.1945gpw.com/

Next question: what is the light, called that is underneath the main Headlights, called?

Here is a picture of the blackout light, (Note the "thing" on the otherside is a siren)

Blackout drive lights.

On the front the hooded light on the driver's fender side is the driving blackout light or headlight you would use. The fixture on the passenger side fender in the last picture looks more like a siren, not a light.

Also on the front are two small blackout driving lights mounted just below the headlights. Those are not meant to be headlights at all but distance indicators for the guy in front of you.

On the rear of the jeep are two more blackout drive lights that are much easier to identify. They are the size of tailights but have two parts. The top part is a tailight and the bottom part is the distance indicator for the guy following you. All the rest of what might look like lights on the rear are actually just reflectors.

The headlight covers referred to were not intended for driving but actually to cut down on the 'glare' the headlights would have in the sunlight off the glass of the lights. The truly neat thing about WWII jeep headlights is they are mounted on hinges so you can swivel the headlights up to shine inside the engine compartment so you can work on it in the dark. Very novel and an idea (like the stamped front grill) that was created by Ford.

The stamped front grill was invented by a Ford employee who was looking for a way to replace the 'slat' grills being currently used. Those are the front grills you see made of welded metal bars in the early versions of the jeep. This part slowed production and the creation of the stamped grill we all know so well eliminated this problem and literally allowed hundreds of thousands of jeeps to be made in such a short time. Of course Willy's also had to start using the stamped grill as the design was dictated by the Quartermaster Department and it became such an icon of the jeep that after the war Willy's legally made it a trademark of the Jeep. Something the were pursing anyone who reproduced them as little as 10 years ago if they tried to repro them. And they didnt' even invent it! This case has been bouncing in and out of the courts for decades and although it has been proven beyond a doubt Willy's doesn't in fact have any right to trademark the design, the average person cannot fight the deep pockets lawsuits that Willy's brings if it goes to court.

To Tim's point .....

The other side is a Siren

Above picture from http://www.g503.com/

Sirens are not stock. Those were added on for things like MP jeeps.

If you or anyone wants to buy a WWII jeep I highly recommend you do alot of homework or take someone along with you who knows what they are looking at. There are a LOT of post war jeep conversions out there, some done by some very talented people using civilian jeeps. There are alot of people trying to pass these off as WWII vintage vehicles as well. There are at least 4-6 of these on eBay right now.

Sometimes though you can find one that is WWII but the person selling it isn't quite sure or doesn't know. The registrations on most WWII jeeps are not typically accurate as to manufacture date. I've seen WWII jeeps listed as 1942-1950's or even later on many registrations.

The more expensive jeeps out there are usually ground up restorations like mine. That doesn't mean you can't get a decent priced jeep for around $4,000 or $5,000. Just expect to put a little work into them if you do. Then again, not all $4-5,000 jeeps are restoration jobs. Some are quite nice. Just take your time and don't rush into it.

Once my jeep arrives I would be more than happy to take anyone on a visual tour of what to look for on a jeep.

As mentioned above...

Blackout lights were a way of measuring distance. There were three different blackout light styles on the jeep. Two small on the front grill (under headlights), One large on the driver fender, and two rear tail lights. Note the driver tail light was both a Stop light on the top and a blackout marker on the bottom (as shown below). These triangles can be seen at different distances as mentioned in prior post. The closer you are, the more triangles you can see.



Another comment from above, many late model WWII jeeps Mar 45 - July 45 were ear marked for "Operation Olympic" the invasion of Japan. After production, these jeeps sat waiting for deployment. When the war ended in Aug 45, thousands of jeeps were then put to surplus and sold here in the states, thus never seeing combat.

Tom
http://www.1945gpw.com