442ndRCT Soldier's Forum

I'll run it by people with degrees right now.

To my understanding, there aren't many M2 owners in CA, atleast 5 on the forum. and no one has been prosecuted for it on the grounds of Title1 Firearm. But since I'm not a lawyer, I'll get one's opinion.


the .50 ban is a pile of shoot with more loopholes than a velcro building though.


When they exempted the M2, they denied the consideration of caliber. It works the same with antiques and title 1 firearms.

Update!:

(AB50)The law as read says:

12278. (a) As used in this chapter, a ".50 BMG rifle" means a center fire rifle that can fire a .50 BMG cartridge and is not already an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276, 12276.1, or 12276.5, or a machinegun, as defined in Section 12200.
(b) As used in this chapter, a ".50 BMG cartridge" means a cartridge that is designed and intended to be fired from a center fire rifle and that meets all of the following criteria:
(1) It has an overall length of 5.54 inches from the base to the tip of the bullet.
(2) The bullet diameter for the cartridge is from .510 to, and including, .511 inch.
(3) The case base diameter for the cartridge is from .800 inch to, and including, .804 inch.
(4) The cartridge case length is 3.91 inches.
(c) A ".50 BMG rifle" does not include any "antique firearm," nor any curio or relic as defined in Section 178.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
(d) As used in this section, "antique firearm" means any firearm manufactured prior to January 1, 1899.

RIFLE - A weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger. 18 USC

In all interpretations of the law, it was a call to ban all rifles in the .50BMG caliber, not a ban on .50BMG as a caliber. In addition, in a legal standpoint, the M2 is also not a rifle. Therefore exempting it from AB50

Likewise, it is not a machinegun by law, since it is not a fully automatic (NFA Regulated) weapon.

Also remember that the Semi Auto only M2's do not fall under the curio and relic laws because they are new manufacture.

no, but because it doesn't meet the criterion to be fired from the shoulder, it's a title1 firearm, not a handgun, not a rifle.

it's in the same class as 1919a4 beltfeds

You need to be careful regardless... There are loopholes that will allow you to have one... and then the State can turn out with loopholes of its own to arrest you for having one.

Molon Labe

trying it is a good idea, that's how we get caselaws. So far there's a community of M2 owners that fire live rounds regularly; and none of them have been harassed by the BOF.

Doesn't much matter if you can't get the manufacturer to sell you one to begin with.

way ahead of you, I have a list of 3 manufacturers located in CA ready to build a basic M2 for about 9k

these guys normally cater to 1919s, but they're willing to do a .50 out of available parts

I'm gonna try to sweettalk them into a better deal using a destroyed barrel and such since the thing is going to be D&Ted for BFO

Today the Tripod arrived. At least I think it's the tripod. Big ass box and I don't think I ordered anything else in a big ass box. Unless Spiggy sent me a set of gloves or something in a Big ASS box!

it's a bucket of superfluous parts

Tim, I'm kinda dying of witchcraft right now (I'm sure it's witchcraft... or very least the common cold). So I'm stuck at home doing nothing if you want to wheel it all over and have me start assembling.

Spiggy wrote:it's a bucket of superfluous parts

Tim, I'm kinda dying of witchcraft right now (I'm sure it's witchcraft... or very least the common cold). So I'm stuck at home doing nothing if you want to wheel it all over and have me start assembling.

I'll see how my day goes tomorrow after I finish at the gym. Or... will you be home in the day? I'll be at a doctor's appointment in Fountain Valley tomorrow and might be able to drop by on my way back into work around noon or so.

yea, I'll be barely waking up,

Thought you guys deserved some photos, when I get the chance, I'll start primering and repainting the barrel and small moving parts

Man, she's looking sweet!

At the request of Tim some info on the M2 and its armor piercing capabilities:

In short: Using API ammo you can penetrate a 250 or 251's armor at 500m. Using AP you can penetrate that armor probably around 1000m.

The long and technical version:

The .50 caliber round is optimized for penetration at long ranges (about 875 yards, or 800 meters). For hard targets, .50 caliber penetration is affected by obliquity and range.

The .50 caliber round can penetrate all of the commonly found urban barriers except a sand-filled 55-gallon drum.

Continued and concentrated machine gun fire can breach most typical urban walls. Such fire cannot breach thick reinforced concrete structures or dense natural stone walls. Internal walls, partitions, plaster, floors, ceilings, common office furniture, home appliances, and bedding can be easily penetrated by .50 caliber rounds.

Number of rounds needed to penetrate a reinforced concrete wall at 25° obliquity.
Wall Thickness==109 yd (100 m) Range==219 yd (200 m) Range
2 ft (0.6 m)==300 rounds==1,200 rounds
3 ft (0.9 m)==450 rounds==1,800 rounds
4 ft (1.2 m)==600 rounds==2,400 rounds


Penetration capabilities of a single .50 caliber M2 AP round fired from a 45-inch barrel.
Range==Armor Plate (homogeneous)==Armor Plate (face-hardened)==Sand==Clay
219 yd (200 m)==1.0 in (25.4 mm)==0.9 in (22.9 mm)==14 in (355.6 mm)==28 in (711.2 mm)
656 yd (600 m)==0.7 in (17.8 mm)==0.5 in (12.7 mm)==12 in (304.8 mm)==27 in (685.8 mm)
1,640 yd (1,500 m)==0.3 in (7.6 mm)==0.2 in (5.1 mm)==6 in (152.4 mm)==21 in (533.4 mm


Penetration capabilities of a single .50 caliber M2 Ball round fired from a 45-inch barrel.
Range==Sand==Clay==Concrete
219 yd (200 m)==14 in (355.6 mm)==28 in (711.2 mm)==2 in (50.8 mm)
656 yd (600 m)==12 in (304.8 mm)==26 in (660.4 mm)==1 in (25.4 mm)
1,640 yd (1,500 m)==6 in (152.4 mm)==21 in (533.4 mm)==1 in (25.4 mm)

To try and read that mess just figure out the 1st/2nd/etc columns, I put == signs in to seperate them or just go to the source and scroll to the bottom:
From: http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infa ... _ammo.html

From the same source here are some general homogenous steel plate penetrations for API:

Armor Penetration.
500 meters: 0.63 in (16 mm)
1,200 meters: 0.32 in (8 mm)

and AP:

Armor Penetration.
500 meters: 0.75 in (19 mm)
1,200 meters: 0.39 in (10 mm)

Now why does all that matter? Compare it to the Sdkfz 250 and 251's armor:

From their wikipedia entries:

Sdkfz 250: Armor 8-15 mm (.31-.59 in)
Sdkfz 251: Armor 6-12.5 mm (0.24-0.57 in)

Those numbers are just the least and most thickness of armor on the vehicle, when I can talk to my dad I can get specifics including degree sloping of the armor which when used with a simple trig formula can give you the "effective" thickness of the slope and true thickness of the armor together.

IMO I think the RoE, especially with .50s have a possibility of being changed and we do have some technical data to stand on as well.